WIX Archives
Cdns Lakes, Forests, Backyards, Tundras, and Taigas {A/C}
Posted by Lee Walsh on Thu Apr 24, 2003 05:43:38 PM
In reply top Canadian bush crashes among other things posted by Cees Broere on Thu Apr 24, 2003 01:48:42 PM
Cees;
With respects to a/c being pulled out of many lakes, tundra, and vast forest of our nation this is what I can fill you in on.
German ME262 - Buried at Downsview Airport - Toronto
Met with some of the staff and a researcher named Erl Cromie. Earl and a friend had come across the story of this aircraft being in Canada in 1946 and then being sent to Downsview for engine test. By around 1953 with the engines nearly ruined from the tests the aircraft lie derelict in a nearby portion of the base next to the museum of today. Simply one day it was there and the other it was not. Story goes that it was pulled into a whole/depression and simply run-over with fill put on top. I looked at the site last night with Earl and the site is about the size of a small parking lot that holds maybe 10 cars. They did some surveys and metal-detection and found a few hits. The BIG problem is the Govt agency running the now Federal Govt run park. The manager simply doesn?t want it dug up as it is a German wreck/war hack and they want to stay away from any converse.
The Board of directors of the Park is very interested in the venture of a possible recovery as of the rarity of the aircraft. Keep everyone update on the matter as we could start digging as early as this summer.
Hurricanes:
Parts of these aircraft keep popping up on Barnstormers thanks to Alan Girard near Bagotville, Quebec. The air station was operation up to 30 to 40 Hurricanes a month during the War. Some went missing on flights and were never found. A local museum went hunting in the mid '90s and found the sites of three aircraft. One site was found by local lumber companies while building a road. The simply dug up the wreck and tossed the parts on the side of the road. It was plundered by who, the Museum later went back and managed to ID the pilot by finding some personal effects and pocket change. The other wreck involved 2 Hurricanes that were dog-fighting, hit each other then crashed in a lake near the base. The engines were recovered in the mid 90s and Alain G seems to be selling parts of these aircraft on Barnstormers. Something we Cdn's are not aloud to do under Govt laws.
I am working on another missing Hurricane that was used for skis testing before begin sent to Bagotville. It went missing on May 12, 1942 with a British pilot in a spring snow storm. Running low on fuel, no visual, and a bad compass, Sgt H Green either crashed or landed on a small lake some 70mi south of the base. Aircraft searching for him noticed a man-made hole in a small lake. They concluded that he crashed there and succumbed to the elements. They never went to the site to investigate after the spring melt. Might find some time to fly over the site this summer to get some photos of the crash site. Still no pic of the pilot of any news on his family from London, UK
SeaHornet
This a/c was over here for testing at Edmonton/RCAF WEE flight. It was going to be sold and raced by the late Dambuster Ken Brown - he got Spit TZ138 instead. It was sent to a tech school in BC and then made its way up to Terrance, BC. The town couldnt find a way to get rid of it some it was hacked up? Burned? then buried. Someone reccently dug parts of it up and tried to sell it and some crazy asking amount. Not sure where the story goes from here. A group and Paul Cogan asked me if I knew anything about it and was at a loss after the digging and selling part.
Lancasters.
To my knowledge nothing really remains in large chunks that is. Peter W would know more on this. There is a AVROE Lincoln of some sorts up at Watson's lake in NWT. Not sure if anyone can get permission or $$$ to try and recover anything. Though Canada is very large and nothing would surprise me if something was found. The Toronto Aerospace Museum had a fellow donate a few engines with the nacelles still attached to them a few years back. Never know what is in a person?s garage.
Aircobras
Garry Larson seemed to find a few of these a few years back. Got caught at the border trying to take one home and a local museum told customs of this. Not sure where Gary got his permission to export them though you can get in trouble when you get caught. He managed somehow to get them out a year later and I understand he is looking for others.
Grumman Goose
Someone down in the US has a notion that one of these civilian one sank in a lake somewhere. Jerry Vernon out west who did extensive research on this type in Canada was puzzled as to which one sank, US or Cdn registered.
TBM Avengers in Lake Erie
A RCN TBM sank in Lake Erie near Port Stanley in Jan 1958. The crew flying home to Downsview had their engine die on them and had to ditch near a large pan of ice. The let down, jumped out and seconds later the turkey sank. A wingman orbiting above watched it all and stayed with them till fuel was low. Out came the USN to the rescue and found them at the last minute before the headed for home in Detroit. No lats and longs are known yet. The museum has an idea where it is the just need time and $$$ to go look for it.
Seafires - lake Ontario
Well this story is like a bad smell that just won?t go away. Been following the story of a Seafire in Toronto's harbour for years. The story seems true and it may be Seafire PR434 that was cut up an pitched over the side of a tender in and around 1953-4. No one wants to confess so the story really can?t be confirmed. The RCN archives at HMCS York might have some more clues though I have had no time to look.
Spitfires;
Not sure, still missing what happened to X4555 and X4492 after the RCN to ownership of them. No one knows where they went from Ottawa in Sept 1947
Kittyhawks P40s
Well this one is surprising and yes one of these aircraft could be recovered. In Dec I picked up the case of S/L Chevrier. He was the CO of No. 130 Sqd flying out of Mt. Joli, Quebec on the south shore of the St. Law. River. On July 6th he and another pilot took off to go looking for a German U-boat that sank 3 vessels early that night. Around 5:30am a group of townspeople of Les-Capucins noticed an aircraft flying over. Flying low it woke up many people or took noticed of it flying so low. They noticed 2 explosions and puffs of smoke coming from the engine. Then suddenly, 1 mile from the shore, it suddenly ditched in the river. At 6:30 am the second pilot landed at Mt. Joli with only minutes of fuel left in his tanks. When F/L Cannon got out of his aircraft and headed for the office the phone rang. It was the Les-Capucins operator, "an aircraft has fallen in the river, pls investigate" Cannon left to find out what happened to Chevrier.
They spent the next few months looking for his aircraft by dragging chains and hooks on the bottom. Nothing was found nor his body. This past week I managed to find Chevriers brother in Montreal, the last pilot to speak with Chevrier that night, and the families of many of the witnesses that saw the crash. I have GPS reading on each vantage point and a sightline. They all merge on a site about 1 mile from the main road and 3/4mi from shore in about 40' of water is Jacques aircraft. Local fisherman have said that they can see something shinny down there on a sunny day and insist it is Jacques' kittyhawk.
Working very hard to research the pilot exploits in the BoB and his career back in Canada. Might visit the site this summer and really wish to take a side scan with me.
That?s all they I can add to this, for now anyway. It has been pretty quite around here on such matters. Unless people are finding these wrecks in Quebec for example and not going public with them.
Then there is the backyard of Hurricane Hunter Jack Arnold. But that is another thread all-together!
All for now and will keep you folks posted!
Lee
Toronto
Follow Ups:
- Re: Cdns Lakes, Forests, Backyards, Tundras, and Taigas {A/C} - Peter Thu Apr 24, 2003 07:44:03 PM
- Wrecks in Québec - Olivier Lacombe Thu Apr 24, 2003 08:11:34 PM
- Re: Watson Lake AC - MikeZ Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:57:34 PM
- Re: Cdns Lakes, Forests, Backyards, Tundras, and Taigas {A/C} - Cees Broere Fri Apr 25, 2003 08:32:01 AM