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Re: Oh dear oh dear oh dear

Posted by Brad on Tue Mar 05, 2002 09:15:10 PM

In reply top Re: Oh dear oh dear oh dear posted by Karen on Tue Mar 05, 2002 04:04:48 PM

Karen, this will be short and to the point as I am fast running out of time. It isn't my intention to be rude, so PLEASE don't take offense to anything I say.

:I am so disappointed by what you wrote. As a Veteran of the Military I would have thought you would have a better sense of history.

You have no need to be concerned about my sense of history. I know what it took to make this world what it is. I assure you that I am not in the USAF for the money! I have spent a great deal of time studying, helping preserve and enjoying history. Between flying missions in Bosnia, I was spending money I didn't have to drive all over Europe to see airplanes, concentration camps and battle grounds that I had waited all my life to see. To this day, everywhere my airplane stops, I spend my off duty time serching out these things. When I am home, and off duty, I work on old airplanes.
:

My husband has been icin the Military for 27 years, my Father for 22, and everyone knows the story of my Uncle. My
: Great Grandfather was killed on Armistice Day, 20 minutes
: after peace was declared. You are the first veteran I have
: ever heard say they didn't care about the history of a ma
: chine that one of their comrades fought, and possibly died
: in.

God Bless your family, but you aren't the lone ranger. My dad was in vietnam with the marines, so was his brother. My cousin was a POW in Korea, My grandfather was in WWII, My great grandfather was in WWI, My great great grandfather was in the Civil War, his brother was killed in the civil war. Their grandfather was in the American Revolution. One of my other great grandfathers was an indian scout. I am still in the Air Force, so is my brother and his wife. There's many more, but I won't go into that. I never said that I wasn't interested in the history of these machines. I said all I cared about was having a corsair right now and my daughter being able to see one in twenty years. To me, one corsair represents all the guys that ever flew them. I want my daughter to be able to enjoy that in the future.
:

: Don't you see, these planes are not just some one's pr
: operty, to an awful lot of us. They are a tribute to a bre
: ed of men, that I sadly fear are disappearing at a very al
: arming rate.


It is a shame that the veterans are dieing so fast, but that can't be changed. Don't you think it is much better to fly a warbird built out of pieces in tribute to them than to leave it sitting on the ground because the data plate doesn't match the airframe?

:
: I respectfully, disagree with you, concerning a warbird owners right to do with a warbird as he sees fit. He has been given the opportunity to own something that has a historical significance. This should mean something. Sadly for some I don't believe it does.


I agree wholeheartedly that they are a tribute to the bravery of a past generation. I know that to many owners that is a part of why they spend the money. I also know that if the flying wasn't fun, they wouldn't do it. I just think those departed veterans, as well as the ones that are still with us, would rather see parts of your uncles P-51 fly on in the form of another mustang!
The sad fact is that these privately owned planes ARE the personal property of individuals. They are under no obligation to make sure that the restorations are satisfactory to warbird enthusiasts. As I just wrote in my reply to Mick, if you get out the checkbook, the owner will be happy to do whatever you want to the plane.
I still wonder why people feel that they have the right to tell folks what to do with their planes when they have no financle stake in the property.
:
:
If kissing a Warbird Owners butt is the only way I cou
: ld get a ride in a P-51, I will keep my feet planted firml
: y on the ground. Stroking someones ego, over the fact that
: they have way more money to buy things than I ever will,
: is not how I want to spend my time at an Airshow.
:
: I must also say, I do not believe this is true of the m
: ajority of Warbird owners, and I also don't believe the ma
: jority of warbird owners don't care about the history of t
: heir plane.


When did I say you should kiss their butts? I never even implied that they were any different than us. I just said don't try and tell them the history of their plane. What I meant by that was don't try and tell them "I know that's not really bong's P-38, his was melted down in 1945. How dare you represent your plane as his!". Most do care about the history of their planes, but I know some that don't. Either way, they don't want anybody chastising them for changing identity plates so they could build a flying airplane. I will never have the money to own a Corsair, I have to play with somebody elses. That doesn't give me the right to tell them what to do with their plane!

:
: : I think the most telling thing you wrote was "the warb
: ird world is a buyer beware business" That is really the b
: ottom line. Please don't tell me these planes would rot an
: d disintegrate if not for the warbird owners. There has be
: en enough discussion on this board that I know plenty of p
: eople who would give almost anything to have one of these
: planes. They may not fly, but they would exist. But as soo
: n as someone discovered there was a profit to be made, tru
: e lover's of history, became the minority. It is, and alwa
: ys has been a matter of money....how very sad....


If you buy a Spitfire that had twenty confirmed kills, but nobody knew it existed until it came up for sale, I would say "buyer beware". As I have said before, I am not at all for changing plane identities to increase value, but the potential is there.
Like you surely are, I am one of those people that would give almost anything to have one of these planes. I will never be that lucky. I have done the next best thing, that is become involved with the luckier people that are kind enough to share the toys. Warbird prices were high long before you or I ever became involved with this. I know many people that have dragged wrecks to the farm and put it in the barn just so it wouldn't get melted down. Where do you think a good deal of these flyable warbirds came from? For the most part, it was either pure luck that they survived for a useful purpose, or the fact that somebody had it tucked away with the dream of flying it sometime. With very few exceptions, especially with todays prices, it took the guys with the fat wallet to put it back in the air. I don't think we will ever see the days of your average school teacher buying a P-40 again.


I don't wish it to seem that I don't respect history and veterans. I assure you that nothing could be furthur from the truth. I just know from my experience that the warbird industry is a business and it is driven by money. I hold all vets in the highest regard, the history that they helped make is one of the reasons I ever got into warbirds. It is the sole reason that I am in the Service today.

People always talk about the loss of the older veterans. Nobody ever talks about the fact that new veterans are being made everyday. Especially right now. Maybe the thrill and glamour of Thunderbolts diving into formations of Messerschmitts is gone. But, I promise you that the men and women of todays military, including the crew I am leaving with tonight, are in just as much danger,are just as brave, and quite willing to die for their country.

I Hope someday,long after the last one leaves the service, somebody rebuilds a C-17, C-130, B-52 or something, even if it is out of spare parts with a mismatched data plate and hits the airshow circuit with it.

Karen if you ever end up this way, and I am in the country, I promise I will do my best to get you a ride in the Mustang. In the meantime, I make you the same offer I made Mick. Add me to your email list if you wish to continue this discussion.
Best Regards,
Brad

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