WIX Archives
Anyone add something to this Hurricane story? (interesting!)
Posted by Lee Walsh as per Norm Malayney on Thu May 22, 2003 02:34:06 PM
In reply top null posted by null on null
I saw this post on the CAHS website here in Toronto the other day. I know of Jerry Vernon and Norm Malayney's incredible work concerning their research and docmentation of RCAF aircraft. I was unaware of the "dark" history behind this aircraft, though their are other ex-RCAF/RCN aircraft with a similar past that I don't want to get into. Really hope this dispute and proper serial no. can finally, someday, be resolved. I hadn't time to contact Norm for permission to post is and I am acting in good faith. I would be interested in what my fellow WIXers have to add on this story.
Here is Norm's reply to Ian le Suer request for help in documenting the history of Duxford's "Phoenix". I have tried to unearth some history of this aircraft in the work I have done and now I see why it has been so hard! What c/no. is it???
Norm writes:
May I add further information on the purported history history of Hurricane 5711.
In the late 1960 period, the Air Museum of Canada (AMC) was formed in Calgary, Alberta. Among the collections many aircraft were two Hawker Hurricanes having C/N 42024 and 44019. When Les Hunt compiled the history of all warbirds then known in existance the AMC replied with information detailing aircraft in their collection. This information was published in Hunt's book, 'Veteran and Vintage Aircraft, 4th Revised Edition, Garnstone Press, 1978 on page 193. Among the aircraft listed, it states "Hawker Hurricane IIB 42024 (44019 is at present in Saskatchewan on lease.)".
The AMC floundered in its development and the city of Calgary took over all assets and liabiities of this organization. The collection came under the auspices of the City of Calgary owned Aero Space Museum Association.
Apparently the Saskatchewan group that leased 44019, whose c/n correlates with RCAF Hurricane 5424, continued in its attempt to rebuild and restore the airfame (RCAF 5424) to flying condition. It is known they visited the Cameron Logan farm in New Scotland, Ontario. After WWII Logan purchased up to 200 surplus aircraft which he scrapped for profit. He had several Hurricane center sections remaining on his farm
The Sask. Group visited the Logan farm to (blowtorched the crap out of them according to Jerry Vernon) strip parts from these center sections to aid in the rebuild of 5424.
The next event bringing 5424 to public attention occurred when a news paper article by Earl Fowler appeared in the Calgary Herald, dated Monday 10 January 1983. It states as follows:
"A Calgary group's effort to prevent the export of a vintage Second World War aircraft to the United Kindom appears to have failed.
"An investigation by Calgary city police indicate the Hawker Hurricane fighter is probably already in England near Coventry, says Bob Nelson, technical supervisor for the Calgary Planetarium.
"He said chances of having the aircraft brought back to Canada are slim, but neither the city nor the Aero Space Museum Association of Calgary is prepared to drop the matter.
"Nelson said the Regina group which sold the warplane to wealthy collector Steven Grey may be sued by the City of Calgary or charged with fraud or theft, depending on the results of a Calgary police investigation.
"The museum association is involved because it is the successor of the defunct Air Museum of Canada, which leased the fuselage, wings and other components of the Hurricane to two Regina men in 1970 at $1.00 a year for 20 years.
"Peter Norman, general manager of the old museum from 1967 to 1971, has signed an affidavit saying a condition of the lease was that the parts were not to be sold outside Canada.
"At the time, the Regina residents were interested in rebuilding the Hurricane. They City of Calgary, which became the owner of all Museum assests in 1972, subsequently provided the two with a rare Merlin 29 engine for the aircraft for only $900.
"The new museum association learned in November that the plane was being sold abroad for a reported $153,000. Along with the Hamilton-based Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, which discovered the sale independently, the group has been fighting to prevent the export.
"Nelson, involved because the planetarium houses the city's collection of vintage aircraft, said it now appears the Hurricane was in England even before the sale was discovered by the Calgary group.
"Civil or criminal proceedings may be launched if city police can clearly establish ownerhip and the location of the plane. Nelson said Grey, who resides in Switzerland, had not responded to efforts to contact him.
"There are only four of five Hurricanes left in Canada, including parts of one at the planetarium. Nelson estimated that a Hurricane restored to flying condition would be worth about $500,000."
The above events are well known to all aviation researchers in Canada. According to published reports in the UK publication 'Control Column', Grey was quite irate over the above allegations impugning his standing and reputation.
When the Hurricane arrived in the UK, aviation magazine 'Air Pictorial' published in their Register Review by Alan Johnson on page 314, that registration had been applied for and issued, giving the following information: "G-HURI Hurricane IIB, S.Grey, Geneva, ex RCAF 5547."
It is a mystery where Mr Johnson obtained the identity
5547, but is is assumed from official CAA documents.
Possibly Mr. Le Sueur will provide Canadian readers with copies of all official CAA documents relating to documentation of application for registration G-HURI? Possibly he will contact Air Pictorial and Mr. Johnson for their input on where they obtained the 5547 identity detailed in the register review? Considering Air Pictorial's highly regarded reputation for accuracy, it is assumed the identity 5547 was obtained from official CAA files? Please Mr. Le sueur your input is required.
Now comes the question of who rightfully owns this Hurricane? The Calgary Aero Space Museum, when they took over all assets and liabilities of CAM, did they also become privey to all transactions of the CAM?
There comes the question of the lease. I do not know if the Calgary Aero Space Museum has a copy, but a former board of director of the CAM known to be living in Ireland may still have a copy. This gentleman produced the movie "The Blue Max" which starred George Peppard. Considering the legal implications involved, the original lease, if he still retains this, would be worth a lot of money to either confirm the aggreement of the lease, or to destroy the document to prevent its contents from public and legal scruitiny. This gentleman may not know that he is sitting on a small gold mine.
Because the Hurricane was then en route or already in the UK, 'possession is 9/10s of the law. Also, the Calgary lawyers may believe the Calgary Aero Space Museum may have had a 'moral right' to the Hurricane, but without the lease copy, it appears they may not have had a 'legal right'.
Apparently at the time he purchased the Hurricane, Stephen Grey never heard of the Calgary Aero Space Museum and was unaware of the complicated arrangements between this organization and those in Regina. A year later both he and Robs Lamplough were skiiing in Banff, Alberta and he visited the museum to obtain their side of the story.
Besides the identities 5424 and 5547 listed previously, G-HURI now appears to have a permanent identity of 5711? According to an 'Aeroplane Monthly' preservation profile, the Hurricane is currently listed as 5711 with C/N 72036? Where did this identity come from, and how did the new owner correlate the c/n with the RCAF serial number when there was no fabric on the airframe? The RCAF serial number appeared only on the fabric-covering and not the metal airframe. Mr. Le Sueur, how did the owners derive 5711 from the c/n 72036?
In 1989 I received a letter from a UK writer who was then researching the history of all surviving Hurricanes for a proposed book. He reports that:
"I cannot get involved in the Stephen Grey Hurricane 'Saga" in the book. It is more than my life is worth. All I can do is report the facts concering the aircraft after arrival here in the UK. I do not have any desire to end up in court here, and even if the past of the aircraft is in some doubt, it is a Canadian-built Hurricane....it is sitting at Duxford built-up from a number of different aircraft. I accept that in the main it is from one particular airframe. I have seen the plate 72306 on the airframe in the correct position, although reported by some upon its arrival here in the UK as being 5424/44019, it is not generally thought to be 72306/5711....I do not wish to get involved in a 'witch hunt' against anybody over this aircraft's past. I can only print known facts that can be proved, and cannot use this medium to try and unearth a 'hornets nest'--I hope that you will understand."
Mr. Le Sueur stated previously that in 1947 a syndicate in Saskatchewan purchased the Hurricane in eastern Canada and had it shipped west? There is a problem with this statement. Those involved in the syndicate were either not born in 1947 or they were in either kindergarten or elementary grade school..they were essentially children.
It is difficult to believe that in 1947 with the myriads of surplus aircraft all over Canada, that anyone would travel from Saskatchewan to eastern Ontario to purchase a surplus Hurricane for $50.00. The trans-Canada highway across Ontario to Manitoba was mainly gravel and in many areas strictly a mud trail, so this would eliminate ground transportation to haul the airframe to Sask. And it would have cost an enormous amount to ship it by rail, the only means of transportation between eastern Ontario and Saskatchewan.
There were already nine surplus Hawker Hurricanes sold surplus from Swift Current, sitting on farms across Saskatchewan. Why didn't the syndicate? buy one of these from the local farmers in 1947?
Mr. Le Seueur's above statement has no logical foundation. Apparently he is the victum of mis-information.
Mr. Le Sueur, Canadian aviation researchers await your reply with data to the above questions.
No doubt readers will agree the best identity to give this Hurricane is 'The Phoenix".
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